The Blessing of a Skinned Knee with Guest Coach Kyle Gookins

Today's Play:  Our guest today underscores the value in youth athletes experiencing struggles and challenges to prepare them for the demands of college sports. Coaches also face challenges, especially during the preseason, including the unpredictability of player performance and the differences between recruiting and coaching. Overall, today's play underscores the importance of fostering autonomy and problem-solving skills in young athletes to support their long-term development and success.

Today's Coach: Kyle Gookins is a former Division I Head Men's Soccer Coach who currently is the Director of My College Soccer, a college soccer recruiting consulting agency. He has over 23 years of coaching experience at every level of youth and amateur soccer and has also been a US Soccer Scout for the USSF Youth national teams.

To learn more about Bryant College Coaching, and download our new e-book, click here or go to www.bryantcollegecoaching.com

Picking Teams: A Playbook for Parents is produced by: Amy Bryant and Sasha Melamud

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Transcript

Amy Bryant: 0:00

Kyle. Hello, everyone in today's episode, I'm back with Kyle Bucha. You may remember him from episodes one and nine. Kyle and I recorded this one a while back, back when fall sports were in their preseasons, but even now, as winter sports are ramping up, I think the conversations are relevant and interesting to hear for those of you who don't remember, Kyle is a former division one head men soccer coach and USSF youth national team Scout who currently scouts for an MLS team. Welcome back, Kyle. So what are you seeing out there in the big world of soccer right now?

Kyle Gookins: 0:48

It's fall sports. They're in preseason. So, like, my phone is blowing up right now because I'm on a few like, text chains of, you know, head coaches that are in preseason, and they just keep texting each other, like, oh, you know, various funny memes and different things, because they're all in double days and doing things, I think they're just bored and trying to chat to people. But like, we would always have, like, Alright, who's going to be but you're always in for a surprise, right? In preseason, like, you're always going to have a surprise. It could be a good surprise, or it could be a good surprise. But like, you know, there's something's gonna surprise you. We would always try to guess it. Like, all right, who's gonna be the surprise this year? Like, we would just try to have a little bit of fun with it and go, like, all right, like, who's, you know, who's you try to guess who's gonna surprise you. I never got it right. I never, I never got it. That's why it's surprised. I guess

Amy Bryant: 1:38

so for me in the in the in the preseason. And in Division Three, you don't actually have preseason, so you just have a starting date and that's it. You go really well for for most sports, I think actually, the fall sports get to come to school a little earlier the start dates determined by the first day of school. And there's some some allowances there with them.

Kyle Gookins: 1:59

Is that just d3 because d1 and has to do with your first competition date.

Amy Bryant: 2:03

Yeah, I think, I think it's a little bit different. I'd have to double check that, but I would always sit there during the first, you know, couple days of practice and wanting one of my players that I kind of took a chance on in recruiting and thought that, you know, well, we needed, we needed to fill the roster. I didn't get the recruits that I really wanted, so I had that extra spot. I gave it to this kid that was showing potential. You know, the one out of all of all of them that I had talked to that was showing the most potential. And there she is on the first day. And in my heart of hearts, I'm like, she's gonna, she's just gonna surprise me and blow me out of the water. And then you watch her hit the first ball, and you're like, Oh, those text chains included a lot of like, poop emojis from me and like, like, and then, you know, of course, we get the surprise of one of my favorite stories, and this is actually a success story too, but her one of my, all time, my highest recruit that I've ever gotten in like, and we got so much, you know, PR on we use the site tennis recruiting for recruiting at that time and and we had so much attention for pulling in the first five star and division three women's tennis, right? She didn't show up for the first day of practice. Didn't show up. So, I mean, she and I, look, she made it. She is a success story. Yeah, good, good friends now, and at my retirement party, you know, she roasted me. I roasted her. And not like she got lost on campus, coming to the tennis courts, which are in the center campus. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah. So we, we have been laughed about that, but I totally get it that first week. I mean, the point is we as coaches, we can recruit, we can recruit, we can recruit, we can watch and scout and talk to coaches and and follow the progression of success of players. Doesn't matter what the sport is, but we are never 100% right or 100% sure, and we know we never get exactly who we want. And you know, this is what I say to my student athletes now that I work with from all sports all the time, there's a trickle down effect. You know, Coach has their top list, and they have their tier two, they have their tier three, they know exactly where they're going. What are the chances of them getting to the tier two depends. But, you know, every year is different, but, but we never get everyone we want. So there's a little bit of hope that goes in our first week of practice.

Kyle Gookins: 4:36

It's like, it's so true. I mean, I'm that's a lot of like, you know, I keep texting like, I'm on these chains. I'm like, Oh, how's it going? And they're just like, we still don't know. There's a lot of unknowns, you know, like we're still figuring guys out, like they're figuring us out. And it's funny, you just mentioned, like, we coaches go out there and recruit. And I don't think this came up yesterday, when I was at this MLS Academy. Again, I was chatting to one of the seven teams head coach there, and he we were talking about, you know, college coaching, the transport that we don't have to talk about the transfer, but we'd be running a day. But he was, we were just chatting about that, like, guys moving clubs and different things like that. And he's like, I try to tell guys that there is a difference between recruiting and coaching. Yeah, like, when Coopers are recruiting, of course they're selling, like, of course they are. They're like, rolling out the red carpet. They're telling you, they're telling you, like, here's where you can get to. Here's where we see the projection. We're hoping you can get there. But then when you're there, the job of the coach changes. They're not recruit. They're gonna push you out of your comfort zone. They gotta, like, you know, they got to push your buttons a little bit to get you to, like, play and perform at higher levels. So I think sometimes I remember going through it as a play. I definitely remember it as a coach, like, oh man, there's a dip at that. We're not preseason. There's a huge dip in these guys. Like, they come in all excited, especially newer players, and then that first week, it's like, almost like they're drinking from a fire hose, and they're like, Oh my gosh. Like, where's the player we recruited? You know what? I mean? Yeah, like, and it's like, no, it doesn't mean they don't like you. It's like, you just have to push on through that. Like you have to persevere a little bit. And there is, they're not a different person. They're just, they're coaching you now, like their job as a recruiter is to, like, sell you on the project and the vision of the program. But like, once you're there, now you're part of the vision. Like you've got to help drive that vision and push sometimes people forget it, like they just want to be told, everything's great and you're doing awesome. That's like, not always the case. Sometimes told a hard truth, and I think sometimes they get jaded when, especially in preseason, it's like a lot for new players. It was for me. I remember I called my dad. I was very fortunate. My dad played college football. I had a little bit of like, background of that, and he I didn't know he did this. I found out later when I saw where I played college soccer. I then coached afterwards. I was a grad assistant after so, like, I got a different perspective being a player coach there, and I have a really good relationship with my coach, because he coached me, and then I worked for him. So it was, like, and I didn't know that before the first day of practice, my dad called, or, like, after I committed, he called him and he said, This is the only time you're going to hear from me. And I just want you to know that, like, if you need anything for me, you can call me, but I'm not gonna call and pester you, but this is the only time, this is the only time I hope you hear from me. Is what he basically told him, like this, I just, you know, wish you luck, and if you need, if you need my support with anything to help him, let me know I didn't know this. Like my Simon told me later, oh yeah, your dad called me and just told me, like, this is the only time you're gonna hear from me. I was like, really, I didn't even know that, right? Because I remember calling my dad after, like, four days of preseason, right? Like, on, like, you know, I've got brought in, like, same thing. I was a high profile player. They brought in, like, a guy that was gonna go division one than Division two. I didn't play. I didn't barely play the first preseason game. I was like, looking. I was like, Why would you bring me and give me and give me the scholarship money to them not play me? Right? My dad was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, you need first, like, calm down. Like, let's adjust that attitude, yeah. Like, you seriously. Was like, Look, you have two options. Like, you can be an asset or you can be a liability, like that. You have two options out there. So, like, and it, like, I change. It completely changed my mindset, because I think, like, now, if I didn't have that advice, I would have transferred. Yeah, I would have immediately just gone. This isn't for me. It's too hard. They don't really want me here. They're not feeding my people. No, no, no. You have to make them play you like they want to win the game. They just don't think you can help them win. That's it, like it's when they broke it down like that. I was like, Okay, you went. You got to be the hardest working player out there. They will play you. I was like, All right, done. And it like, just changed. He was like, you don't get to complain to me. And which is great advice for me as a parent, you know? I was like, I have a I have a son, luckily, doesn't, you know, he's not in sports, but I would give him the same advice. It's like, you know, you have to make them want to play you. And I don't, you know, I think sometimes the transfer portal is an easy way out of uncomfortable situations where it's like, I think when you break it down, like most coaches, yeah, they want to develop people, but like, they want to try to win the game. Essentially, we're all competitive. We want to try to win. It's like, All right, we want to help the athletes, help us, help help the team win. So we're going to put the people who we think are going to do well

Amy Bryant: 9:26

well and and there's just so many things that I want to explore there. And I think this is the purpose of this podcast, really for us as coaches or ex coaches, to be able to help parents, to help their kids, because if you hadn't had a dad that had played a college sport was familiar with Dynamics and coaching things, you wouldn't have gotten that kind of advice. And without that advice, who knows where you would have gone like, your attitude could have been sour in that first game, which could have cost you the next game and the next game and the next, you know, and like that kind of steady decline, you know, your attitude, your energy, follows your thoughts, right? And so if your attitude is down, you know that's going to impact your playing and your performance. And suddenly you're not the top dog anymore. Like the coach in that moment when he wasn't playing in that first game, he's thinking, I'm going to develop him. He's got a lot to learn, this, that and the other. That's all he's saying. He's not saying, let's sit Kyle down so he learns a lesson that's saying he's not like, let's teach this number one recruit. You know what? It's all about to be here, like this, is it? That's not what a coach is doing. Like you said, a coach wants to win. He's thinking big picture. He's thinking, this kid needs, you know, some growth, some development. He's there for and if you haven't had that kind of experience with your father and that kind of guidance, that could have gone sour in so many different ways, and look at you stayed at the same school. You play for four years, success story. Then work for, you know, became a coach, etc, etc. And then the number one thing, you know, just to make this little personal, with my kids, number one thing that I said to my husband as we went into soccer, they're both soccer players. I will never call the coach, yeah, if there's an issue I will never call a coach. Now, I had to back down a little bit off of that when they were, you know, 1011, 1213, years old. And, you know, there's, there's some other situations at play, certainly, but it was always with an understanding that the coach has this bigger picture idea of how to get my son and his team to where it needs to go, and so I'm there to support that vision, and that's it. And if a coach needs me, then great. They know I'm there. I love I love that when my kids are in college, I will never call the coach unless it has to do with mental health, yeah, that would be the only time, you know, and that's what we recommend for families as well that we work with. But just sit back, I have so many funny stories of parents reaching out to me as a coach. What I should have done now, in retrospect, is how to parent expectation meeting at the beginning of the year over zoom. You know, we had used zoom.

Kyle Gookins: 12:20

Yeah, I wasn't a thing, right? Yeah,

Amy Bryant: 12:22

but now we could so with nice zoom parent expectation meeting would be great. Let's set it up. But there are so many parents, it doesn't matter how many expectations you lay on them, how clear you are with the boundaries you're trying to set. As a coach, they just believe that there are things they need to say to you at certain times, and you need to hear them like my one of the ones that comes to mind now, and I'm sure I have loads that that will come to mind later. I had a parent and a lover, but every time her daughter was it had a birthday, her mom would text me to let me know. I just want you know, you know, she's a little homesick, and her birthday is coming up. So could you just make sure that you, you know, let everyone know and do something special for the birthday. And my gut reaction to that is, okay, this is a 20 year old girl. He's messaging me. Tell me that it's your birthday. But you know, when I get a little bit more professional, you know, I start to think about the separation of duties on a team and what a role of a captain is versus what is the role of a coach. And so to just to say to any parents that might be listening if you really feel like your daughter is homesick or needs a little boost on their birthday, the better person to reach out to would be the captain of the team or perhaps a teammate or a friend, not necessarily a coach.

Kyle Gookins: 13:49

That's such good advice like that is. I mean, that is really, really good advice, too. I also forget that. You know, when I it was different as a player versus coach, because I didn't have as easy access to my parents. You know, I made the joke to my wife. Like, when I went to college, I changed the permanent address. Also, like, my parents didn't even know what grades like, like, it wasn't like there was an online you couldn't check it, like it got sent to where my on campus. They didn't see anything. Like, I was 18. I'm an adult. I'm gonna handle it, but it's no idea. So it's now, but I, you know, I take for granted. Like, I'm sure when my son in college, I'll text him, Hey, how's it going? Like, how you feeling? Like, you know, checking in. So it's like, it's the access to your to your son or daughter, is at your fingertips, but, yeah, lean into the other people and the supporting, the supporting cast in the group, right? The roommates, the other people on the team. I, you know, that's so important. I would say that as guys go on visits, or, you know, guys who goes on visits, I'm like, it's just as important to get the vibes of the coaches as it is to get the vibes of the players, yes, those are the people you are going to spend a lot of time with. Yeah. Like, yeah. Locations, awesome. Like, oh, it's by the beach, great. But are the players nice? Like, what's the culture of the team? Like, right? Because I can that can get you out of that homesickness, or that can we've also, it's funny, you talked about parents, and I think we used to as coaches. We would go into preseason, and we would purposely set up people by roommates. If we were like, all right, this person needs to get away from their parents. They're a little bit too overbearing, so we would put them with, especially, like in men. So we put up with, like, a foreign player, yeah, people, foreigners are, like, they're a little bit older, you know what? I mean, they're a little bit they usually came in a little bit more mature, you know, like, you know, 18 year old freshman American you have, like, a 20 year old, you know, German player who's been out of the house a little bit, so he's just like, Ah, come on, don't worry about you. So it was like, kind of giving him a little bit different perspective on different perspective on he would, like, try to set those things up to help balance that absolutely you're so right, like, there were, I mean, there were, there were parents that you'd hear from a lot. My favorite ones were the ones that would tell me how prepared they were going into the season, right? Like, like, that was something to be celebrated. And I was like, shouldn't we? Should that just be the standard? So I luckily, I know that's my I mean, you're very similar. I would always have a gut reaction, like, what? And then I would write it down. Luckily, when I was head coach, I had an incredible administrative assistant, and I would go out to her son happened to be in college at a different school, so I'd always go, Is this appropriate to send back to this email? And she'd go, it's a little harsh. And I was like, okay, when you would balance me out, I think that is so important. I would have just said my gut reaction. It would have been just another, another bad, you know, follow up email. But I think those to me were like, I know that she had good intentions. The mom did, like, he's excited me back, and I needed to take a step back. Like, okay, I just need to send like, Thanks. We're excited to like, that's where is my gut reaction.

Amy Bryant: 17:12

I'm glad your child is fit. Thank you.

Kyle Gookins: 17:14

I wanted to respond to pick up the phone and go, like, isn't that what he's supposed to do? Like, so that, to me, was more of the like, you know, like, almost no matter how I think the parents that I didn't mind, parents that were upset because I That, to me, showed that they were that they cared about their child, yeah, and they really wanted to question what I was that didn't bother me as much about them. And there's a reason maybe that your son's not performing, whether it's academically or athletically or something, but that's an easier conversation to me. It was like the parents that were lobbying or using politics to kind of like, get more for their child, as opposed to other ones that that was tough for me as a head coach, where I was like, I see what you're trying to do. Why don't you just let your child try to, try to earn it for themselves, as opposed to, like, politicking a little bit.

Amy Bryant: 18:05

Yeah, well, I mean, it all boils down to playing time, right? I mean, I would hear from more parents if their child wasn't playing, like, that's, you know, whether that's entitlement, whether that, you know, whatever it is. I mean, we see that the youth levels too. It's like when the when the kids not playing, then the parents get real mouthy on the sidelines, and, you know, start becoming what I call cancer, and they talk to parents this coach doesn't know what they're doing. You know, you can see the progression of negativity and the cloud kind of covering part of the part of the parent group. But

Kyle Gookins: 18:38

how did you handle those situations? Because I maybe have handled it a little bit differently, and probably not that that differently, and probably not the best I got when I got sent emails about that. Like, why is me playing? I would bring, I would bring the player into the office, and I would just turn my computer up and go, This is what I got from your parents. Like, because I was, I was so honest with them why they weren't, why they weren't playing. I'm like, do you want to tell them why you're not playing? Or want me to tell them? And they'd like all hand they'll go all handle them, okay? Yeah, I would give them the opportunity, because I didn't want to embarrass them.

Amy Bryant: 19:08

well, even with the player, whose mom wanted me to know, is her birthday every year, or that there's special going on, yeah, I got multiple texts from the mom about, like, ridiculous stuff. I always told the player. I just want you to know I heard from your mom the players, whenever their parents message are humiliated, they do not want their parents talking to the coach. They know what they need to do. They know what they need to improve upon, and that, to me, is the singular most important thing that your dad did for you, that parents can do for their child and will help them to develop. And that is to say, right back to them, what is your coach said to you? What? What do you need to improve upon? What are your goals here? How do you want to move forward? And if a parent can say, you know, how can you be positive, productive? And part of the solution here, you're you've been taken out of the lineup, you're or you're not getting the playing time. You thought. So what's what are your options? You can't control a coach's decision, but you can control your reaction to that decision, and that is a very powerful thing for for kids to think about, that parents can share with their with their kids, and help them to think through it, because the way they respond will impact relationships. Moving into the future will impact, like I said, your future plan opportunity, and then also is a great reflection of how things are going to be when you leave college and graduate and get your first job. What happens when you get passed up for that first promotion or first project you really wanted? You're going to sulk and have your parents call? Are you going to or are you going to be positive, productive and part of the solution, and move forward and then in a mature and professional way? And that's the bottom line. When a coach takes a kid out of the lineup, that is a professional decision, not a personal decision. Doesn't mean the coach doesn't like your kid exactly it means. And we get back to what you said before. Coaches want to win. They want to do what's best for the team, for the program. The big picture in mind, and that's what it boils down to

Kyle Gookins: 21:16

Totally agree, I think that's such a valuable statement for parents in the youth game as well, because, like, I think what you said is, I think every parent of a youth athlete should take that on board and start to use that strategy in the youth game so that they're better prepared going into the college like, it's not just like a complete, you know, all right, old Turkey cut off, you know, communication from the parent to the coach, and, you know, now the parent to the kids, just, like, not set up for success. Like, start to do that when they're younger, right? Good with your you know, 1314 year olds. Like, I just, like I said, I was out of Dallas Academy where there's 14 year old, you know, 14 year old kids that are 3000 miles away from their parents. Their parents aren't calling the coach if they don't play like they have to figure it out. And they're learning, and it's incredible learning experience. So it's like, like, I had a conversation before I went to the MLS Academy from a different club director who had just gotten back from a foreign trip. So he took it, they took a team over to England and played. And I said, Oh, it sounds amazing. Would you love it? And he goes, I would love to do it again without any parents. Yeah, like,

Amy Bryant: 22:30

I've done a lot of international tours,

Kyle Gookins: 22:31

yeah. He was just like, he goes, it was awesome. But, like, the kids that didn't have their parents there, I think got more out of it, yeah? Like, you could, you could see it's like, it was almost like he was like, I'm told him, I said, the times I've done it yesterday, four trips are awesome, but you have to put the parents in a different hotel. Yeah, you have to separate things and, like, let the boys experience things. Like, when I went on the foreign trip, when I was, you know, 1314, my mom and dad didn't go, like, it was expensive. I was was gone for 30 straight days. Like, was amazing. I loved every minute of it. Like, yeah, you know. And this is what I try to tell you. This is going back a lot of themes that we talked about, like the experiences you get by playing different levels of sports like that. That experience, to me, is just as powerful as playing college sports, right? Like, you know, my really good friend that went on that trip with us, and then we were on the same team. He's the Cal head coach, and then soccer for Cal Berkeley. He won a national championship at UCLA. He played in the MLS. Every time I see him, he goes, how fun was that trip to Europe when we were first words out of his mouth? Like, man, I guess I think about that European trip. Yeah, every day, yeah. Of course you do. Like, that's like, you know, he had an incredible playing career, even coaching career. Like, it's Cal head coach, but like, it's, you know, his parents weren't there either. Like, we just got to figure things out. And we played sometimes we didn't play. Like, you figured it out on the road. It's like, such a valuable tool. Like, now for you parents of youth athletes, like, give your kids a little bit of autonomy, and, like, give them the power and the strategies on communicating with their coaches, and, like, running through mistakes, like, that's okay, totally okay. And it's gonna help them when they go to college, if they're gonna be better equipped.

Amy Bryant: 24:16

Absolutly and, and I think, you know, as we wrap up this session, like, I think that's the number one lesson the parents need to remember, is that struggles are okay. Like, it's a, you know, it's like, it's like the parent that rushes their kids aid when they skin their knee, you know, just let them, let them feel it out when they're, you know, a little kid. Let them feel it out when they're in youth soccer. Youth Sports doesn't matter. Let them feel it out, let them, let them experience the emotions that come with having to sit on the bench a little bit and deal with a tough coach and deal with, you know, within reason, like we're not saying that abuse your child, but within reason. And you know these struggles are good, and they make your kids stronger, and that is entirely true at the college level, as it is in the youth sports level.

Kyle Gookins: 25:04

Completely agree, like I completely I completely agree it doesn't, you know, it's just like a slow drip, drip effect as you're as you're pushing them on through through the levels to get played college sports. Completely agree with that. That is like a very, very, very, very true statement.

Amy Bryant: 25:21

Awesome. Well, let's wrap things up for today. Kyla was great as always. I'm sure we'll have you back again soon. Bye.