Serious Fun: The Value of Small Moments with Guest Coach Karl Hedley

Today's Play: Karl Hedley impresses the importance of allowing children to organically develop a passion for their sport, rather than forcing it upon them. Karl also emphasizes the need to make sport accessible and available, but then let the child's own interest and love for the game grow naturally. He cautioned against overly enthusiastic parenting that can dampen a child's passion, sharing examples of parents pushing their children too hard and leading to burnout. Ultimately, a parent should be focused on developing not only successful athletes, but well-rounded individuals who demonstrate maturity, sportsmanship and the ability to handle adversity - qualities that are cultivated through sport, and extend far beyond just winning games.


Today's Coach: Karl Hedley is the Boys Soccer Director at Gwinnett Soccer Association. He's coached youth soccer for 20 years and specializes in coaching middle-school-aged players.  

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Picking Teams: A Playbook for Parents is produced by: Amy Bryant and Sasha Melamud

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Transcript

Amy Bryant: 0:04

When you look back on your upbringing and having a father that was a professional, what were the lessons that you learned from from him growing up, that you're applying to coaching now,

Karl Hedley: 0:18

I think the biggest thing we went down with, I mean, and he did, and it was a quintessential, you know, 70s, early 80s, he really got out of my way, like my dad. My dad coached during my younger years all the way through my youth and scouted. So he would do some scouting for Everton and Liverpool locally and stuff. But so I very rarely saw in the games, like I don't when I moved over to the States when I was younger, I think that was honestly the first time my mom and dad had seen me play. I mean, Dad had sent me play in the park, but never really seen me play playing. And this is story will amaze people, but a white a van, a white transit van, used to pick me up on a corner when I was about eight or nine, and drive me into Liverpool City Center to play games when I get home and be dad or go, did you play today? Yeah. Conversation so he can't I mean that he taught me to love the game, I think, more than anything, be passionate about it, and not by sitting down and saying, This is what you need to do, just following him night and day and seeing what he did, standing on the sidelines and listening to him getting too close to our halftime team team talk every now and again, learning some words I didn't know about at the time, Passion and the understanding and understanding that this is serious fun, and we're here to do a job and get that job done. Now, when they when they got off the field and they went out as a group or whatever, you saw a completely different side of it. But the whole point of what I learned, I think, from him and my mum both as well, because they were both, they both are still fun loving people. They're they're dads, they're 80, and still go out having a great time, having a party. They love it. But that was the thing. It was enjoying life at the forest, but from nine to five or over the white line and all that was the work, right? And it was, commit yourself to that and go and enjoy the rest of it. Go and enjoy the fruits of it, if you, if you get them. And that was the biggest thing. And I was, I was passionate about the game, because I was around it 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Or, you know, it was, it was travel for this, or it was the local club that he had a lot of investment in, monetarily and time wise. We were there a lot. I grew up in that club. I was a mascot. I was a ball boy. I played for him all the, you know, everything. So you just end up cultivating a passion, not just for the for the for the game, but everything that it brings all the, you know, the support, the family, feeling the whole nine yards. The biggest thing for me all the time is, I think what he did for me, the little time that I did get to spend with him, down the park, kicking a ball, is it was more about falling in love with the ball and then falling in love with the sport, everything around the sport. I think too many times kids get caught up in especially in this modern day of FIFA and eight second clips. And, you know, I don't even know where the kids sit down and watch games anymore, to be honest, but it's more about the idea of being a player and not want to be. Do you know what I mean, like, they love the idea of being like, especially in the lower leagues in England, I love the idea of being, I loved, or had the desire to be a player. I wanted to be a player. Didn't, didn't do enough to do it, but wanted it. But I wanted I didn't. I didn't necessarily want the flashcar and the autograph sign in and what I would have taken it, don't get me wrong, that wasn't the driving factor. The driving factor was I loved the sport because I fell in love with the ball and then fell in love with the sport. And I think sometimes I feel like we've got it a little bit. I watch some of these things, these Academy specials, on television, and I hear seven or eight year old boys are Crystal Palace and Arsenal and stuff like that, talking about, when they make it they're going to buy mum a house, or mum's going to getting a new car or not. And it's not, it's not what they're there for, not what they should be doing, falling over the ball, falling over the game, and then whatever the fruits of your labor are after that. It's all secondary.

Amy Bryant: 4:43

You know that's a great message, I mean. And it really is a process to fall in love with the ball like it takes a lot of work. And I think that's that instant gratification piece that this generation is going to have to continue fighting, really because, because of social media and everything else that they see, but, but it's a process. You can't go from A to Z, you know, just like that, like it takes time, it takes work, it takes effort, and it's essential that they love that work along the way, or they'll drop out. They'll get burnt out, though, you know, that's that's the key. So how do we how do we make them, how do we teach them to love the game? Or how do we help them as parents, and you're a parent too. How do we help them to, you know, love what they're doing?

Karl Hedley: 5:27

I think, I think first and foremost, it has to be organic, right? Has to happen naturally. I don't think you can, like with my daughters, it was always on. If they didn't fall in love with it organically, they weren't going to fall in love with it, because it was everywhere. That was an avid Liverpool supporter, you know, again, when they were younger, it was one game a day, if you were lucky, you know, look, watch it seven o'clock, six o'clock in the morning, whatever it was. So they got up and it was on, or it was, you know, go to England. And they were around it in England. So they got, they got their full force of you know, here's the here it is available to you if you love it. And I think that's the first thing. Is, when you talk about parents getting out of the way if they don't love it, don't try and force them to love it. You've got to give them every opportunity to to fall in love with it. So my dad would make sure I had a ball always. Or, Hey, do you want to go to the park? Let's go to the park when I was little. You do those things with them and go kick around, but awesome. I tell parents all the time, they should be driven by them and then driven by you. So if they want to do it, they should be driven to do it. And then you drive them wherever they've asked you to go, right? You physically drive until they can drive, but they've got to go get the ball out of the closet. That's the that's the summer message. Every time when people say, what should be doing over the summer, should we sign up for this time with that, put the ball away and see if he goes and gets it out, and if he doesn't, and let him go be a kid for a little bit, they'll fall in love with it if you make it available to him, and they are meant to fall in love with it, you know, that's the bottom line. Or they'll fall in love with someone else, and that's all right too. I mean, I love multiple sports. I'm enjoying multiple sports. I'm not very good at some of them, but I love tennis. I love watching tennis. I'm not very good at it, but I even go and play in it, and the chances I get to play it, and that's fine, but you'll get, you'll find a passion with what that one thing, whatever that thing is, you'll find that passion if it's available to you. You're encouraged to work hard, and that's the be all and end on anything you do. You know, I mean, if you're gonna wash the dishes, make them the cleanest you can possibly make it right, just be the best at what you can be. But that's the encouragement, I think, that comes from the parents, is encourage them and and you can push them a little bit to do whatever it is they do to the best of their ability, and make everything available to them, and whatever they fall in love with or fall in love with. I mean, that's mean, I know your passion is tennis, and I don't think either one of the boys really play, right? I mean, that's, you know, it's, it doesn't mean, because it's your passion. It's certainly not going to be their passion. And then the message that is, once you've guided them or help them guide to wherever they want to end up in that sport, then get out of the way. I think the best sport for my kids to get into was one that I had no clue about, because I literally shut up and no clue what they were doing, you know? And that's the best way you can't you can't teach kids or let kids be taught how to do something with your constant information and guidance as they're trying to do it, you know? And I think we all hear it and see it on the sidelines every week, right, kick it, boot it. Run, shoot. Decision making is being yelled by parents as these kids are trying to make these decisions, but yet, when we put them in a maths test, we close the door and we don't allow anybody else in there, and they're looking at a maths test, and they're solving those problems without anybody giving them information. And that's the key part. Nobody's screaming over the shoulder. That's number five. Make it a five. Make it a seven. Nobody's doing that. They just let them get on with it. And that's the key. Is that once you once they find that thing that they're in love with and get out of their way and just find them wherever they need to go, it's the downside to being in the States, right? There's no man on a white transit van picking them up. You can't walk there, or you can't bicycle there, you've got parents have to be involved. But you see it with the older boys. They no longer parents no longer go to practice once they're driving, some don't even go to games. So that change starts to happen. So let it happen earlier, and let them do it organically and get out of their way.

Amy Bryant: 9:47

Have you ever seen a parent really destroy a child's future that had a lot of talent and had a lot of passion?

Karl Hedley: 9:57

I've seen them destroy passion and I've seen them damper talent by overwork and over enthusiasm. So pushing them to do props more than they need to do, I think you can push somebody to fall out of love with some something, right? You do something and you do something well, because it's your passion, and you love it, you enjoy it, and left to your own devices and do it, but we all need a break from everything we do. I love coaching, but the minute I get asked to do a winter league or a summer league or whatever, I'm the first to say no, because if I don't have that downtime and that rest, then I can my the flame goes out and eventually, and you know, I'm not doing the best of my ability, at the best of my ability all the time, but I think I've seen a good bit of that. I don't think I've seen anybody that you could have stepped back and said, This kid's got a real chance. But I have seen the flame get dampened by over enthusiastic parents living their dream through them, pushing a little bit too much. Some kids can take it. I mean, there's, there's loads of stories out there in the Williams sisters and and the Tiger Woods is of the world, and all the rest of it, where God was instrumental in being that driving Bucha, some people can take it, but a lot can't. And I think that the key is that if you're driving them in the right way, it's fine, but you can dampen that love for it, and if it turns into a job. Well, I mean, I don't think, well, I don't know what the percentage is, but most people don't like their job. Bryant their job, and like their job anytime you like, when it's not really a job, it's something the key then, obviously, is to let them enjoy, let them enjoy what they're doing. But, yeah, you see it. You do see it. I see kids, you know, you look at them and you think you don't really want to be, you know. And nine times out of 10, those kids drop off and become second or 13 players when they're older, or stop playing. Yeah, I tell 13 year old AC and old boys all the time. And I love it when the older kids are over on the field or two over. You know, you look over and there's the Oh sevens, or there's the Oh eights. And I can say that kid, that kid, that kid played for me at you 13. Well, where's the rest of them? That's a good question, right? Where are the rest of them? One or two at Atlanta united, one or two abroad, the rest of them not playing anymore, or they're playing on a second team or a third team. And that where? How does that happen? Either they weren't good enough, weren't athletic enough, weren't strong enough, weren't quick enough, or, in some circumstances, Mum and Dad helped put the flame out. ,

Amy Bryant: 12:40

yeah. It's yeah. It's so sad to watch, because, you know, even for me as a college coach, for as long as I was I could always see the student athletes that would have had so much more success had their parents just gotten out of their way. So frustrating. So I love I like to ask these questions because I think that parents and their self awareness is not always, not always present. To put it bluntly, so what is the craziest conversation you've had with a parent about a player? Like the most ridiculous conversation? I asked this because it's like, you know, as a parent, sometimes you're like, Oh, I would never do that. I never push my kid too hard. I would never, I would never put the flame out. And then you hear the story and you're like, oh, wait a minute, I've done that. So yeah, what is it?

Karl Hedley: 13:32

I think I've heard them all. I think that I have to be careful, because some of them are still playing, so no names. I I love the I mean, I've literally, probably got 100 different ones that would if I could pull them to mine, would not blow your mind, because I'm sure you've heard them too. But the ones I always love are the ones that is like we do personal training, we do private trade. We do this. We do that. You just feed agility on a Friday night. He does this. Does the other we train him in our backyard, and we don't allow them back in the house until they're crying and they're sweating. And, I mean, this is this is typical. It is typical. And you think to yourself, What? Why are you doing like why would you greet a child like this, like and try and push him to a point of breaking point, really, you know? And I think that you hear enough crazy stories, I mean, the amount of kids being dragged abroad at 12 and 13 years of age, and, you know, signing up for a team or not following through with a commitment on daily halfway through a year because he's not getting playing time or club hopping constantly, because the coach wasn't doing this and he wasn't doing that. I don't think there's any one particular standout. I mean, there probably is, if I really, really thought about it, I'm sure there is. But the collective of, again, just making decisions for these kids that you just need to leave it alone, like, just leave them alone and let them make these mistakes and let them deal with the subversity. You know, I could, like, there's some games that I watch, like the the 2000 and sixes play, or the 2000 sevens or eight and we play against some of these other local teams, and I could almost sometimes get a group of 10 or 11 players together from the other clubs that we play against. It's like, Well, what did you get over there? Well, now I'm playing Amy. So now, what big deal you weren't even the best player ever in you've gone searching for something else, you know. And it's the same with the kids that end up at St Louis or Nashville or Florida somewhere, searching for whatever because they didn't make Atlanta, Barcelona academy or PSG Academy, where they're paying 3040, grand a year, or whatever it is to be part of this, you know, subsidy subsidiary of that of Barcelona, or whatever. And what you Where are you take? What are you searching for? Like your environment? I mean, you'll see it with the lads that we've sent to Atlanta, most of them, not all of them, because there are one or two that go that you think that's not, but we have a good enough relationship between them and us, and we speak to the scouts on a weekly basis, where most of the time, they take what we tell them as being true and that those kids going have just outgrown our environment, right? I'll be the first to tell a parent I wouldn't take it, but if they've outgrown our environment, they need to be in an environment where they're being pushed by their peers. Because, let's be honest, as much as I love all the coaches that Alani and I, they're no different than they are of all the other clubs, they have similar licensing, similar histories, some less so some more. So the message is the same. The idea is the same. Philosophy is the same, but the environment is different. I don't always agree with the pretty brand new turf and giving them boots and all that, but that, again, the story, but the environment of the being around better players and being pushed by that dog eat dog, I want your spot. That's just what they need at that moment, go in and they don't need it, and they have to come right back out again, right? But that's the next point of it is, let them, let them outgrow their environment. Yeah, before you move them on, not the other way around, he slips and he's going to make a second team next year. Well, let me take him over to the club 20 minutes down the road to make sure he's playing on the top team, right? It's the same example you just gave with Amy and I. Is not going well. Let's move over to another club where their catchment area is not as good, where they'll love you. You're still not going to go pro. There's only 1% of the kids of the academy going to go pro. So from somewhere else, you're not helping yourself, you know, right? So I think that's the biggest thing, is just let them, let them outgrow their environment before you think about pushing them on to the next.

Amy Bryant: 18:10

Yeah, that's really good, really good advice. So to end on a more positive note, because I have been at, you know, poking for some more controversial answers. What's your fondest coaching memory. What's When have you had, like, a, an amazing experience, or funniest, you know, give me, give me

Karl Hedley: 18:28

some lots of funny ones, as you can imagine, some of them not repeatable on on this podcast, but I think, and this is going to sound extremely cheesy, but, you know, I've had teams that have done well in won the league, gone on to Nationals. Done well, tingling done. Not so well. Of 2006 years when Jefferson cooked top flight, which was fantastic Disney tournament, back in the day when Disney was massive with the 2000 fives, was a good experience. As cheesy as this sounds, my fondest coaching memory was the 2000 and sixes were down in Miramar Beach, Miami, and this is when EC and health back in the day, that's how far we had to travel. Used to have to fly, fly into Tampa, play in stamper Bay, united, and then rent a car drive down to Miami play that fly back late on a Sunday night, and the 2000 and sixes were playing against Miramar. They were they were bottom, we were top, and they put us on 120 yard pitch. You thirteens run up and down, 120 yards extended football field. There was birds on the field that we had to move off to begin the game, the benches weren't set up, right? No tense. It was just everything that the league tells you to do, they didn't do. And then in the corner of the field we had a group of probably about 10 or 15 parents screaming at the boys, swearing at them, telling them they were going to hurt them and do things to it was horrible. It was a horrible, horrible environment. The game was so bad because the pitch was so so big, we go down one end for 10 minutes, then it go down the other end for 10 minutes. We won one nil. They were doing, they were shouting, they were pointing. Parents told me afterwards what some of the things they were saying was horrendous, and in all that adversity that they were dealing with. Their team walked off and left their bench, and our bench, obviously, from our stuff from the game before as well. So you 19 has played on the same pitch before us. That's how big it was. Left the whole place of rep water bottles everywhere. Trash just left behind. Trash can was tipped over. So I'd started to walk towards the parents and a turn around every single while they getting booed and shouted at all our 2006 boys were tidying up our bench and their bench, wow. And then as they as they tied up, then they walked straight through the middle of those parents that were still over there doings and to see the look on the parents faces that those young 12 and 13 year old boys had been bigger human beings that I think, honestly, it's it is still probably, to this day, my proudest moment, because I thought to myself, if I don't teach you anything else, that's what you've done. That's what you've accomplished, is you've been able to in all this going on, you've been able to deal with that and then still realize we've got a tight we got we can't leave this place like that, but then go over and do their bench as well as huge. So that was a massive moment. And like I said, with all the other stuff, there's been great failures and great successes. And I love the boys that go on to Atlanta and do well, and the lads are now knocking around first teams and in different countries as well, here and there, but for the most part, those little things that know at the end of it, hopefully you're creating good human beings. You know?

Amy Bryant: 21:54

I love that. It's a great way to end. Thanks so much for being here, Karl, it was great to have you, and you shared so many excellent insights. I appreciate it.

Karl Hedley: 22:03

Thank you. Appreciate it.